WINCHESTER MODEL 12 HEAVY DUCK GUN 30" SIMMONS VENT RIB 1953 PRE-64 RARE 12 GA. MAGNUM 3" EDITION PROOF MARKING - 12 GAUGE MAGNUM - 5 - 30 " The 30" heavy barrel is proof stamped "WINCHESTER TRADE MARK MADE IN THE U.S.A."; "-MODEL 12 - 12 GA. - FULL"; "WINCHESTER PROOF STEEL"; "FOR SUPER SPEED & SUPER - X 3 IN.". Buckingham is jump-shooting with his big double gun. Auction Date: December 7, 2019 Estimated Price: $ 8,500 - $ 13,000 Price Realized: Details Exceptional and Documented Smoothbore Winchester Model 61 Slide Action "Rifle" with Simmons Vent Rib and Box Manufacturer: Winchester Model: 61 Type: Shotgun Gauge: 22 LR Shot Barrel: 24 inch vent rib Finish: blue Grip: Stock: walnut Item Views: 1599 Both guns have 30-inch Full choke barrels inscribed FOR SUPER SPEED & SUPER-X 3 IN. The bores are bright with no pitting. Featured Gun Classifieds Winchester Shotguns - Model 12, Winchester Model 12 - 20ga - 26 - Improved Cylinder- NIB - UNFIRED - SN: MT0162 - AS NEW with high figured wood - 2 3/4" Shells note: particles/dust can be seen in the photo, In very good condition. But it would be my guess that the wood has been refinished and the gun has been reblued. Advanced . It would stop ducks consistently at 80 yards. Two years after Askins wrote the above, he received from Ithaca the first 3 1/2inch Magnum 10 double off the assembly line. As you know that, Winchester Model 12 (factory original) 28-gauge pump action shotgun. He spent many years as firearms editor for Outdoor Life and later Field and Stream, as well as shotgun editor for the American Rifleman. 1935 3" magnum offerd, will convert all 12 gages if wanted to 3" magnums, the begining of the long forcing cone. You jack the shell out and it goes off under your nose. Great communications. We need to talk model 12's sometime. As good as the Brownings are, Ill just keep my Model 12s from New Haven. Winchester proof steel is chrome-molybdenum steel. Sales of 100,000 were recorded in the first two years of production. Look for an offset proof mark on the barrel to indicate whether the rib came on the gun or was fitted aftermarket. The load averaged 67.5% (range 62-72.5%), in a 30-inch circle at 40 yards. Helping out a person with 3378 posts who if they spent 5min. The new value of a WINCHESTER MODEL 12 shotgun has fallen ($937.31) dollars over the past 12 months to a price of $484.80 . It was Western that produced the 3 1/2-inch 10-gauge magnum with 2 ounces of shot in 1932. Winchester Model 12 in 16 ga with a 26" barrel with a full choke. Must ship to an FFL. Winchester recognized the scarcity of ducks in their promotional advertisement of the new duck gun To Meet the New Wildfowling Conditions. I suspect most Model 12 duck guns bought before World War II were put to work on other game. Most annoying was the failure of the action-slide lock to function properly. Built from 1912 to 1963. Field grade pump gun with Mod choke barrel. Since you in Kansas; ever deal with now deceased Felix Bedlan @ Fairbury, Neb. Also, it was the only 1 3/8-ounce magnum load available. of a company that is committed to your satisfaction. your community AND if they have it in stock, you can pick your gun up Very Good example of a Model 12 26 inch poly choke with vent rib 12 ga. Other conditions: Phone 715-478-0404 within 48 hours to confirm payment, . Thats like spending 12 days straight day and night. so recall pads helped and they offerd hydro coil-stocks. Could it be that the intended rough usage led to lack of care in the fitting of parts of early duck guns? Must be shipped to an FFL, New price, Listed is a like new Winchester DU, Model-12, 12 Ga Pump Shotgun. - Top Rated Plus - opens in a new window or tab, - eBay Money Back Guarantee - opens in a new window or tab. $550 USD. SAME RECEIVER AS MODEL 12 BUT MAD, Guns Listing ID: 640773MAKE - WINCHESTERMODEL - 12FINISH - BLUEDBARREL - 28\"CALIBER - 12 GAUGECAPACITY - N/AGRIPS - WOODCONDITION - VERY GOODFEATURES - HYDRACOIL STOCK & MODIFIED BARREL, Winchester Model 1912 Nickel Steel 20 gauge EARLY Serial # Up for sale is a used Winchester Model 1912 Nickel Steel 20 ga, 2 3/4" chamber, 24" VR barrel stamped full but reads IM on a bra, Winchester - Model 12 Factory Try-Gun, 12ga. I read your posts; you do love the Model 12, been there done that. A Cold War era classic with smooth lines, a legendary back story, and an exotic-sounding name, Beretta's Model 71 was definitely a mouse that roared. 30 Barrel. I am still going with "Winchester sent Model 12s to Simmons for ribs, but Simmons sold them." Simmons also removed Solid Ribs from barrels and added his rib to those barrels. Tried to talk him out of doing it and sell him a build up gun but he wanted a vent rib on it as it was his dad's gun. Charles Askins may have influenced the decision. Action works perfectly. Simmons vent rib installed. The point is the model 12 evolved. Has 30" barrel choked Full. Stock has a Monte Carlo cheekpiece and European pistol grip with a right hand palm swell. Twelve magnum guns grew lighter over the years and consequently kick harder. I hunker down and blaze away. Askins rule of thumb of 70 years ago still pertains with modern lead-shot ammunition. This percentage was disappointing compared to the 80% or better patterns obtained with other duck guns tested by the staff. THE VENTILATED RIB IS BY SIMMONS GIN, 16ga, Full Choke, 26" barrel with a bright and shiny bore. Will Winchester ever build the Model 12 again? Full choke was the only standard boring available. This gun has been single family owned since bought used in 1967. Condition: excellent bright bore, 98% blue overall thinn, Winchester Model 12. This was a result of the Watrous report, which recommended that many of the slow-selling options be discontinued following the war. And, as WRACO states, Simmons installed Model 12 ribbed guns were sold by Simmons, not Winchester. Guns.com is built to be simple easily organized products, useful descriptions from experts, and support to guide you to the right choice. No. says Madis. Winchester undertook preparations for improvements in its firearms line following World War II. Madis comments Fancy walnut was considered too fancy for the rough treatment often given a duck gun. Fancy walnut could be ordered and the few pidgeon-grade duck guns had fancy walnut. The Model 12, already 23 years old, was one of many successful designs by Thomas C. Johnson. However, the Model 12 duck gun should still be an excellent long-range waterfowl shotgun with the right ammunition. The duck gun made in 1952 has a Simmons ventilated rib. The new Model 12 duck gun was introduced to long-range waterfowl hunters habituated to heavy double shotguns chambered for 3-inch shells. winchester model 12 description: for sale is a very nice vintage winchester model 12, 12ga ga shotgun. Its failure to release on discharge made it impossible to shoot doubles [at skeet] with this particular sample. The staff concluded, Mechanically, the sample was not as good as other guns of the same model. Noted were machine marks on the breech bolt, wood not closely fitted, primers struck off center and sharp edges at the chamber. Winchester advises Do not use steel shot in any Winchester shotgun with a fixed choke. Use tungsten polymer, tungsten matrix or bismuth shot for waterfowl hunting with your Model 12 duck gun. Duck guns always sold for a slight premium over the standard model. So a shooter really doesnt need a rib. His handload was a .heavy load of Herco powder and 2 ounces of shot, either 2s or 4s. Chamber marked 2 3/4", choke marked full, and 13 1/8" LOP. We join Buckingham in his ducking skiff as he is poled through the bayou by Ab, his black guide. part of our network, we sell THEIR guns first whenever possible. "Metal parts of the Model 12 are machined from chrome-molybdenum, the toughest, longest wearing and finest gun steel known." Barrel lengths were 30 or 32 inches, but 32-inch barrels were discontinued in 1948. Both shotguns shot to point of aim and all patterns were contained on the target paper due to precise aiming, facilitated by placing a 25-pound sack of lead shot between me and the gun butt. The Model 21 received duck gun status in 1940, although 3-inch chambers could be ordered earlier. Modified choke. The first thing you notice when you pick up a duck gun is its weight and solid feel. I have several 2-pin guns. In an ad in the October 1952 American Rifleman, Winchester proclaimed. Also available initially were standard trap and special trap grades. Options for the Model 12 duck gun were reduced over the years, particularly following World War II. Thanks for the reference. The price $379 does not seem out of line for model 12's in this area; however, my question is does the Simmons rib add or detract from the value of the gun? I know the patent date for this rib was 1919. Winchester Model 12 with checkered forearm (slide handle) b'. service to the online gun buying experience that is unheard of. Guns.com pledges to make gun buying easy, to support local gun stores, and to serve our document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Every once in a while a Model 12 comes through our club with a high Moneymaker rib like that. I believe that Stadt's book is one of the few that actually states that Winchester did produce M42s with Winchester vent ribs. I rebuilt all of the trigger assemble with all new parts just reusing the guard. Winchester made changes to the stock of the Model 12 duck gun after its introduction. Free Shipping, No Credit Card Fees. Free Shipping, No Credit Card Fees. Here's what it's like to shoot this classic scattergun. Winchester needed to cut it's manufacturing costs and the milled vented rib was a costly proceedure. This test determines if excessive peening of the bolt locking cut in the receiver has occurred. All Rights Reserved, Winchester Model 12 Heavy Duck Gun 30" Simmons Vent Rib 1953 Pre 64 Rare 12 Ga. Magnum 3" Edition Proof Marking. Winchester Model 12 12 ga 30 in Barrel 2 3/4" Full vent rib Barrel NICE! These ribs have Simmons markings. , Winchester - Model 12, Deluxe, Pump Action, RARE 28ga. From its debut until the end of the 1950's, the Winchester Model 1912 was the pump shotgun, long known as "the perfect repeater." The rib wasn't offered until 1954 according to the Dave Riffle Model 12 book so it wasn't originally produced at the Winchester Factory. I was in Jr college then. No Reserve. Both guns averaged 80% or better patterns with all loads of #4 shot. My gun is a pump action Model 12 shotgun with a grooved slide handle (forearm). Deluxe checkered walnut, Its new in the original box with associate paperwork in wrapping paper.. has mi, Metal surfaces rate very good, handling marks to wood. The balance point is the takedown joint. . The gun looked to be in excellent condition except some nitwit had inlayed a white plastic diamond in the stock at some point. own to figure out what you want. The straight grip stock, optional from 1935, was discontinued in the late 1950s. The pidgeon-grade duck gun was discontinued in 1961. Refresh your browser window to try again. John Olin wanted a new 3-inch .410 shotshell with 3/4-ounce of shot for Winchesters new Model 42. Terms and Conditions and Privacy Policy. There are 3 possible models that you might have: 1) Your Model 12 has a grooved slide handle and with a 'F' stamped after the serial number and has a lightweight alloy trigger guard. Rangemasters are here to answer all your questions about our products or process. A Simmons Rib has been added to the barrel and the metal was refinished. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. The new 1935-style buttstock featured a closer and fuller pistol grip. The near nine-pound Model 12 duck gun is an anachronism among todays waterfowl hunting shotguns. The Duck Stamp Law of 1934 was enacted to provide funds for waterfowl propagation. only one I have ever seen unless TS member owns one? Lot 6593: Winchester Model 42 Slide Action Shotgun . It won't be a collector but a shooter and should draw some attention. I don't believe it has been fired. Click here for more information. 14" LOP OVER THE ORIGINAL W, Up for sale I have a 100% NIB Winchester model 12 chambered in 16ga. It is at my engraver now. The duck guns reputation was made with the one and five-eighths ounce load, the heaviest 12 magnum load from about 1935 to the mid-1950s. The Model 21 double seemed the reasonable choice for Winchesters duck gun. No Reserve. And you are not right about them becouse the model 12 evolved over time with improvements you didn't seem to catch becouse you are probable not a shooter. Bore and action are excellent. The $48 price tag was right. The trap load was included because trap shooting is suited to the duck gun. Winchester Model 42 Slide Action Shotgun with Simmons Vent RibManufactured in 1952. Westerns innovation was progressive-burning powder that deformed fewer shot during acceleration. In 1963, when production ended, Riffles book shows no options available. The takedown joints are tight (See the instructions in Madis book if your Model 12 has a loose take-down joint). Winchester proof steel is chrome-molybdenum steel. Ernie special order model 12's from Winchester to add his Dounut Vent Rib. The 12-gauge 3-inch magnum shotshell was developed to achieve this objective. He is engraving the old (Ulrich big duck 12-5 pattern) on it. the barrel and chamber are bright and clean. 1 Winchester Model 70 Ultra Grade Featherweight 270 Win. 1937 2pin vent rib offerd, all skeet grade guns offerd with solid or plain barrels. Buttstocks of duck guns had lead slugs inserted into the wood beneath the recoil pad. Chamber marked 2 3/4", choke marked full, and 14" LOP. I wish I had them back! The 3-inch shell was chambered originally in the famous Super Fox long-range double. However, Winchester and his succeeding family members successfully managed Winchester Repeating Arms Company from 1866 to 1919. I was at a local gunshop this morning and was looking at a model 12 2-3/4" that had a Simmons rib. A milled rib Model 12 is a milled rib Model 12, but the terminology is used a bit loosely. Original appearing donut post and round post vent rib Model 12s with no Simmons markings and proof marks in the proper places are generally thought by collectors to have been made to completion in the Winchester factory. Get Guns.com offers and news!! The first was helping the gunsmiths. Thus it was that the American Rifleman staff thought it odd that Winchester brought out the 3-inch chamber in their Model 12 pump gun. Results and Discussion The paired pattern percentages fired by the two duck guns with each of the five loads were not significantly different, judging by the overlapping standard deviations. McIntosh notes that the Super-X shotshell was a breakthrough to the modern age of shotgun ammunition. In a full-page ad in the September 1926 issue of the American Rifleman, Western claimed Killing power 15 to 20 yards beyond the effective range of ordinary loads.This was based on a documented reduction in stringing of the shot charge, from about 20 feet to about 4 feet, at 42 yards. Add to Cart Winchester 12 12 Gauge (W9744) $995.00 Winchester 12 12 Gauge shotgun. seller description. Yes the 2-pin milled rib was costly to manufacture. Number 8 and 2 shot provided wider and more even patterns with no center thickening. When winchester changed the chamber to 3" did they mark the barrels or reproof? The shotgun featured here was made in 1976 and is in stellar condition. I hope this helps you out A forum community dedicated to Shotgun owners and enthusiasts including the Remington, Beretta, and Mossberg shotguns brands. A lot of us will have to begin learning to hit long-range ducks. Sounds like an invitation to join the long-range duck hunting cult! Free shipping for many products! For specifics on Copyright Law and I believe the solid ribs were soft (lead) soldered like the model 21's. The Pitt-man-Robertson Act of 1937 began an 11 percent excise tax on sporting arms and ammunition. Since Every shotgun manufacturer is a friend of mine, Askins views were well known in the industry. 2023 Rock Island Auction Company. I found some they didn't. Remington re-tooled from the M31 to the stamp, push and press 870 which sold for less than the M12. Dolphin717, please give us a page reference in Stadt where he mentions Simmons sending Model 12s with ribs back to Winchester for finishing, and/or marketing. The famous Winchester Model 1912 pump shotgun was designed by Winchester's Thomas C. Johnson. Total production reached two million. Open Fullscreen. The fact that the Winchester proof marks are now 'off set', caused me to believe the gun may have been returned to the factory for the rib installation. A new chamber ring and a # 1 heavy draw adjusting sleeve. But the charm of idle jump-shooting is far too potent.. There was no need to shoot ducks at 60 yards. Patterns were fired from a benchrest, using American Target Company B21 silhouette targets measuring 35 by 45 inches. This was after extensive reworking of the chokes by Ithaca. This is a shotgun I should never have sold. generous return policy, and handle everything you dont have to go back to Writing in the March 1927 issue of the American Rifleman, Askins reports that his Remington Model 10 12-gauge pump averaged 89% of 1 1/4-ounces of shot in a 3-inch circle at 40 yards. I know of a gun shop in Idaho that can take about any model 42 and put on round post ribs or solid ribs that are just like factory original with the proof marks. Not sure how many of you know this, but the rib has a serial number stamped on the underside of them with the same number stamped on the underside of the barrel. But I manage to concentrate, find the combination, and center a pair of easy sprigs. ORIGINAL BOX INCLUDED. The lead slug added weight but more importantly maintained the balance point at the takedown joint. Edwin Pugsley, in charge of Winchester at the time of receivership, is quoted in Williamsons book: The purchase of the company by the Olin interests brought a breath of life to the institution and brought to Winchester many things. The latest 2-pin rib gun researched has a serial number of 19114xx with a date of August 26th, 1960. My wife shot her share of ducks with a 20-gauge autoloader bored Improved Cylinder shooting one ounce of #7 1/2-shot. L.O.P. Winchester Model 12 Skeet Gun 12 gauge with 25" Solid Rib Barrel - 12 GA: 0 1d 7h 25m 17240921. Checkered semi-fancy walnut pistol grip stock with extended forearm and a solid Winchester recoil pad. Generally, a Simmons rib gun will bring a higher price than a plain barrel gun, and a lower price than a solid rib or Winchester vent rib gun, all other factors being equal. The earliest Simmons catalog I ever found was 1949 when Ernie began advertising his "Special vent rib" which was the "Dounut Post". Second Media Corp., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. I always wondered what the royalty was to Simmons on the Winchester Special Ventilated Rib that they installed. Most sellers have no idea what they are selling. If you pull the trigger and the shell does not fire you must push the slide handle forward to unlock the action. And unlike our competitors, it extends beyond the buying process. Keep in mind that all of these changes in stock design were running changes and thus some overlapping of designs occurred in production. Lay-a-way available for t, Excellent overall condition sporting original finishes. Harold Williamson, in his book Winchester, The Gun That Won the West, relates that the new management of Winchester embarked on a program that involved an extraordinary departure from the companys previous operations and the investment of borrowed capital in large amounts. Winchester struggled through a decade of inept product diversification that was terminated by the Great Depression. winchester model 12 heavy duck gun 30" simmons vent rib 1953 pre-64 rare 12 ga. magnum 3" edition proof marking - 12 gauge magnum - 5 - 30 " However, killing ducks at long range remained the objective of many duck hunters. Both guns were disassembled, cleaned and lightly oiled before testing. No Reserve. Winchester Pre War Mod 12 Trap 2 Barrel Set 12ga, Winchester Pre 64 Mod 12 DU Illinios No.1 Engraved by M Dubber, WINCHESTER MODEL 12 HEAVY DUCK 12GA 3 INCH MAGNUM, Winchester Model 12 16 Gauge rare 2-barrel set, Used Browning BT99 Plus 12 gauge 28" bbl fixed choke mod good condition no box no manuals, WINCHESTER MODEL 12 16GA PUMP ACTION SHOTGUN, Winchester Mod 12 Vent Rib B-Carved Wood 12ga, "Winchester Model 12 Shotgun 12 Gauge (W12258), Winchester, Ducks Unlimited, Model 12, 12 Ga, Shotgun, Winchester Model 21 Heavy Duck, 12ga, 30" 3" mag, Briley Chokes, Winchester Model 12 12 ga. Deluxe Skeet grade w/ factory Cutts, Winchester Model 1912 Nickel Steel 20 gauge 24" VR bbl EARLY Serial #. The standard length was 2-5/8 inches. However, Winchesters ribs were not marked with the Simmons name and Kansas City address as mine is. Come join the discussion about optics, hunting, gunsmithing, styles, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! The Olins bought Winchester for $8.1 million through a combination of $3.3 million cash and the balance in an issue of preferred stock. community. A study of Michael McIntoshs book Best Guns indicates that a few thousand of the specialized waterfowl doubles of all brands were sold between 1921 and 1941. S/N 1,589,*** made in 1954. An 80% pattern they felt should make it a real 60-yard outfit with No. The magnum led to new class of long-range double-barrel shotguns for waterfowl. For example, only about 300 Super Fox and 800 of the Ithaca Magnum 10 doubles went into hunters hands during the period. But they must pass our way to clear! The finishes and rib are 100% Winchester and in great condi, Used Winchester Model 12 20 Gauge 26" barrel WS-1choked skeet Cutts compensator with restriction inserts good condition Buyer pays shipping Millers Gun Center Located in New, Winchester Model 12 pump action 12ga shotgun. These are rare, a line can be seen along the dounut post on both sides. The era of the double gun was ending as World War II approached. The stock finish is original and excellent. 30" Vent Rib Excellent White Front . Produced in 1961. Although the quality of the rib will be the same as the original Winchester, the only way a Simmons rib looks OK on a Model 12 is if they DON'T put their silly name down the side of the rib.
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