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It sounds awful and not like any other recirculating pump I've ever heard. Question: Can a recirculating pump last for 10-15 years?Answer: If you use it properly, it should last at least 10-15 years. We will presume that youre buying a hot water circulation pump for a household of 4 and that each person wastes about 2 gallons of water per day (mean value of Oak Ridge National Laboratorys study). Navien NPE-240s with external recirculating pump. You will see in the photo that the cold water valve shuts off water into the domestic water inlet but doesn't have a shut off into the circulation water inlet. Locate the reset button on the heaters front control panel. Hope this illustrates well why this might be occurring; its a pretty standard thing. Why Does My Stiebel Eltron Tempra High-limit Switch Keep Tripping. Costs associated with hot water circulation pumps (parts + installation + DIY savings). Check the thermistors condition along with pump wiring connectors. Can I Turn Off My Hot Water Recirculating Pump? [Answered] For example, you may damp it into a bathtub, pushing the water through the isolation side on hot. The major difference with hot water pumps in new homes is that you can install a full recirculation pump system (Type #1). You can crack open the manual for your tankless heater and check if it comes with that option. Open the pressure relief valve. Troubleshooting Navien NPE-240A Internal Recirculation Pump Navien has an aftermarket add on hot point or something that lets you control when the recirc is on. If water comes out from the pressure relief pipe, this indicates that the issue is not with the unit but with the house's plumbing. You certainly dont want that, do you? Navien NPE-240 A Recirculation Line www.amazon.com/shop/miheatingguy Milwaukee 2131-20 M18 ROCKET Dual Power Tower Light Hot Water Recirculating Loop Owen Perkins 81K views 3 years ago NAVIEN. Older Navien heater models are prone to flow sensor issues. What is more, you can, by these estimates, reduce the future water bill considerably and actually profit nicely just by not needlessly waiting for water when youre waiting for the hot water to kick in. Signs There's a Problem with Your Hot Water Recirculating Pump - Maeser I can figure out occupied or not from a home automation or alarm system. Theoretically Correct vs Practical Notation. Typically recirc lines connect at the furthest fixture and allows hot water to flow through the main trunk lines. Your Navien Recirculation Pump will make a humming noise like a refrigerator if you dont bleed the air out of the recirculation system. Prevention of Modern Slavery Progress Reports. However, the hot water had to travel from your water heater to the faucet for you to use. This setup is very similar to the one I have with my 40 gallon tank setup with recirc/return line by using an X10 home automation module to program the remote to turn the pump on for 4 minutes and automatically turn off whenever someone presses it before taking a shower. If it does, you could trigger the operation to save money whenever your system detected 'away' or however you've got it programmed. Note on tankless hot water heater recirculation pumps (double trouble solved). Fortunately, Navien water heaters recycle hot water and always provide hot water. This is where the timer and temperature sensor come in. I have the newest version pcb since I just bought the tankless. last week. Then what are we waiting for? If the issue persists, contact your original installer or an NSS to service the sensor. The pump will cost you $200 to install, $5.50-$32 to operate, will waste $160-$400 per year and will save you $4-$50 on your water bill. It looks like you're using an ad blocker. To create an energy-efficient full recirculation system, your pump has to come with these two efficiency optimizing parts. Make sure to follow the instructions before and after you turn off the pump. It should come out of the hot water port. (Per Hour, Month, Year), How Much Does A Tankless Water Heater Cost? Side question: are you able to explain to me what always on means? (Cost Calculations), BTU/h To Horsepower Calculator + BTU/h To HP Chart (To 72,000 BTU/h), Horsepower To BTU/Min: Convert HP To BTU Per Minute (Calc + Chart), HP To BTU/hr: Horsepower To BTU For A/C (Calculator + Chart). The cold water inlet one thermistor is defective. Well, If you overuse your pump, it will start malfunctioning. But in my case its significant amount of time and it only really gets hot if I fully open the hot water at that faucet otherwise it is luke warm. He has a good standing reputation for superior skills in heating, air conditioning, hot water tanks, and indoor air quality systems. So, get 2 braided ss flex connectors and install them on the inlet and the outlet of the pump. For more information, please see our This propels the water to your faucet or shower much quicker. One option is to put a relay/contactor between the Navien and the internal pump, so that that pump can only get power when the house is occupied. And the heater has been set to recirculation mode. This is done every time you close the faucet. Or invest in a larger water heater. The temperature sensor, on the other hand, makes sure you dont needlessly use too much energy to heat the water. Hello Sam, you can shut off the recirculating pump to the kitchen faucet. Fits These Models Hi: Parts that will actually be used depend on what kind of hot water recirculation pump you have. Turns out if you "disable" schedules when in always on mode it stops the every 30 minute schedule the device uses when in Always On mode. 08. IF it does, could it be controlled remotely? Why do small African island nations perform better than African continental nations, considering democracy and human development? Then check to see if the plumbing lines and the heaters water lines are clogged. When building a house, its smart to think about hot water recirculation as well. Now, we have to check if these costs are balanced out by the water savings. Navien 30010780B Circulation Pump - amazon.com The error code E445 tells about the defect of the bypass mixing valve. How do I align things in the following tabular environment? For most existing homeowners, integrating a recirculating home pump comfort system on top of the existing piping makes much more sense: Heres why this is the most popular type of hot water recirculating pump in homes: You use the existing water pipe alone. Do not advertise or try to compare pricing. This may require chasing the supply lines. We do all the time-consuming research and testing for you. Locate the power button and press it to turn on the heater. Open the service port on the host side and the isolation valve on the cold side, pushing water through the system. Navien's patented ComfortFlow system is the first to include a buffer tank, recirculation pump and fine-tuned controls into a tankless water heater, resolving the cold-water sandwich effect* and issues of minimal flow rates commonly found in other tankless water heaters. This time of year, we dont need to have instant hot water circulating so we turned off the pump. You May Forget to Purge The Recirculation Pump, 03. To reduce that time significantly (and stop needlessly wasting water), we can install hot water recirculating pump. This is the system you can see in the photos above. If you have come back from a vacation, first turn on the main water valve. The water heater is set to 120 F (49 C) by default. Navien tankless water heater recirculation | 2016-04-01 | Plumbing and How to Flush a Tankless Water Heater (Step-by-Step Procedure) If you'd like to support the site, please allow ads. It will help you avoid common water heater issues and let you operate the unit smoothly. The circulation return needs to come from a loop at an end of the hot supply line. The exhaust is overheating. Now you have your socket, turn it off/on whenever you want! Is this a common drawback with the under-sink crossover valve? My pipes arent big enough 2. You can adjust the temperature by the below 10-degree increments, depending on the temperature range: 98 F-120 F/ 36 C-50 C 1 F or 0.5 C increments, 120 F-140 F /50 C-60 C Press for 2 seconds to adjust in 5 F or 2C increments. Turn off the power before removing the filter. I kind of feel like he is trying to get away with something that wasnt installed properly but hopefully I am wrong. If you have any questions about these pumps, how they work, or some calculations, you can give us the specifics in the comments below and well try to help you out. Can this be moved to another sink in the house that is not used as often ? Reconnect the power supply to the water heater. A hot water recirculating pump will save you money, especially if you have a larger family. There is something wrong with limit control. Check this too: Electric RV Water Heater How to & Troubleshooting Guide Make sure to follow our instructions properly for the right application. Brand: Navien. I have 5 connections including the recirculation in. Categories Home Improvement, Patio, Lawn & Garden, Plumbing, Tools, Water Valve Handle Broke Off? What Is the Difference Between 'Man' And 'Son of Man' in Num 23:19? Turn off the unit and check the valves wiring and condition. 5.0 out of 5 stars 3 ratings. This error informs you there is something wrong while you reset the unit. If pointed in the right direction, though, I might be able to solve this. ($0.05 $0.22/h), How Much Does 1000 Watts Cost Per Hour? Turns out that it was the temperature of the return water was high enough to stop the recirculation. Some pumps, in order to avoid needing a dedicated return path, will recirculate the water via the cold water supply, so getting some hot water from the cold supply would be normal in this case. First, place a " thick rubber between the pump and anything it will be mounted on. (std. How To Turn Off A Water Recirculating Pump? Navien Recirculation Settings: Everything You Should Know I recall it was p23 but it was definitely larger than p20. So, there is such a thing. Only 19 left in stock - order soon. Once the display stops flashing, the temperature setting is stored. Where did you find that info? Thats all for today. Navien NPE-240 A Recirculation Linewww.amazon.com/shop/miheatingguyMilwaukee 2131-20 M18 ROCKET Dual Power Tower Lighthttps://amzn.to/3pe2hYHMilwaukee M12 Surge Hydraulic Driver Kit #2551-22https://amzn.to/3n5offbMakita E-01563 Impact XPS 3 Pc. The electric recirculation pump uses this other pipe to pump the hot water back into the boiler or water heater. To understand this problem what I am talking about, you can watch this video: First off, I recommend you check the primary loop. Additionally, you can install a 5-micron filter in the water inlet right before the heater to remove impurities from the water. We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites. These on-demand units need an even longer time for the hot water to reach a faucet because the heater has to first heat the water and then send it along to the faucet. We and our partners use data for Personalised ads and content, ad and content measurement, audience insights and product development. Continue with Recommended Cookies. However, some gas needs to be used to heat water for the pump to circulate; the gas usage for this is pretty much insignificant relative to how much gas we use when powering the instant hot water heater. = heat loss from the circulation system [kW] Error Code E438 It means the circulation pump is not working correctly. $257.16. Examine and clean the filter in a cold water inlet. Do new devs get fired if they can't solve a certain bug? I broke down all the possible reasons that cause your Navien Recirculation Pump to produce a humming noise. By clicking Post Your Answer, you agree to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy. This gives you a negative return on investment (ROI), so. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Make sure the major electrical cord is grounded correctly. Navien NPE-240s with external recirculating pump. - JustAnswer Quite surprisingly for most homeowners, the biggest problem with this type of recirculation pump is getting cold water. First, place a thick rubber between the pump and anything it will be mounted on. $197.08 $ 197. Navien 240A2 tankless help : r/Plumbing - reddit Navien NaviCirc Recirculation Valve Description How it works Specifications Dimensions How do hot water recirculation pumps work to get hot water fast? Water recirculating pumps just circulate the water; the water pressure should stay the same. It sounds awful and not like any other recirculating pump I've ever heard. Reassemble the heater and turn on the hot and cold water valves. 3. This unit doesnt have dip switches as far as I undersrand. I agree the user manuals are very helpful. 4 Common Hot Water Recirculation Pump Problems Check to see if the water valves are open. The timer has control over when the pump is working continuously. Consider yourself lucky if this installation hasn't damaged your circulating pump inside the unit. Circulation pumps can wreck havoc on your lines if you run them constantly due to friction at bends causing pinhole leaks. Heres the thing: Both cold and hot water need to be supplied using the same pipe. There is a circulator pump, but it still takes a long time for hot water to reach the upstairs bathrooms. Also the unit needs to be set to utilize the recirculation feature. Close the isolation valves to the cold-supply and recirculation lines. - If there is not the fore mentioned set up he probably did the best he could do without re plumbing your house with double hot (returns to your Navien! We have to keep the valve on and slowly hot water comes out. Browse other questions tagged, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site. Turn the unit off. NPE-A2 Series | Navien I obviously dont know much about this but the plumber is giving reasons that feel like he is making up dont make sense to me: 1. Since pumps cost about $200 each, the recirculating pump will pay for itself in 3-4 years. The buffer tank eliminates the "cold water sandwich" effect and issues of minimum flow rates commonly found in other tankless water heaters. This type of hot water recirculation system is most appropriate for new homes; homes that are in the 3rd or 4th part of the building process. Lets look at the two most popular types: You can install hot water or tankless hot water recirculation pump in an existing or in a new home. Now, that comes to the question, can I turn off my hot water recirculating pump? Generally, your Navien recirculation pump will produce a humming noise because of the wrong size primary loop, not purging the recirculation pump, or foreign materials getting into the pump. You can contact a plumber if necessary. When its time to work with a recirculating pump, you should follow some instructions to avoid further hassles. some homes require multiple recirc lines in order for all fixture group to benefit. Press the M (menu) button on the front panel and choose the 1. 14 Culprits To Check For Now, MMBTU To MMSCFD Calculator For Natural Gas + Chart, 8 Best Infrared Heaters For Indoors, Patios, Garages (With ECO Thermostats), AGM Battery Voltage Charts: 12V, 24V Deep Cycle Battery Voltage, Lead-Acid Battery Voltage Chart For 6V, 12V, 24V, 48V Batteries, Natural Gas MMSCFD To MMBTU/Day Calculator + Chart. https://www.ebay.com/itm/12V-DC-MOMONTROL-RM11-/350575987090?hash=item519ff50992, Navien NPE-240A2 External circulation question, Navien NPE-240A and HotButton - DIP switches and parameters, Flushing Navien 240A set up for external bypass, Navien NPE External Recirculation Confusion. Next, check and remove the intake filter from the heater. All you have is a crossover valve underneath a sink somewhere also when plumbed correctly, all of that will only function with proper dip switch settings, perimeter settings, which is Pacific per heater model. The default setting is usually around 120 degrees Fahrenheit. Remove the filter from the plastic assembly and clean it with a toothbrush, and clean running water. Besides, the E782 indicates that there is something wrong with the main panel communication. Yes, you can turn it off by yourself. Question: How much does it cost to buy a water recirculating pump? How To Fix Navien Tankless Water Heater Code E003? You mentioned that in the summer months your can turn off the recirculation pump. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. Empties the water pipes so the next time youll need hot water fast, it will meet less resistance in the piping and it will arrive at the faucet in a matter of seconds. Another suggestion I can give you is to maintain and service your Navien water heater according to the manual. Both options use less energy than a continuously-running system. This Navien 30010780C Circulation Pump for NPE Series is a genuine OEM repair part. Ask Your Own HVAC Question b55db6.jpeg 6a7761.jpeg ee4ed0.jpeg cc7ba2.jpeg 8ec6a3.jpeg 32aa59.jpeg Power Waste You can isolate the pump from the vibration in two ways. The cold water pipe coming from the wall goes into the domestic water inlet on the tankless heater, as it should. Sold by HVAC Pros and ships from Amazon Fulfillment. sounds like you need a different plumber to assess your situation. I have a new Noritz tankless water heater that includes an AquaMotion recirculating pump at the heater and a crossover valve under the kitchen sink. Its a piece of cake to bleed the air out of your Navien recirculation pump. Flush the vinegar out of your water heaters. There is some issue with the front panel key. For example, an open or shorted sensor causes this issue. Thats why most homeowners prefer installing the recirculation pump without the extra pipe. Question: How is a water recirculating pump eco-friendly?Answer: The basic reason is, water recirculating pumps save water. It provides information about the problem with the fan motor. I used a razor and carefully pried each side of the RM11 open to reach the programming switch. Hi Christopher, not really. So you'll find the same info whether you're looking for the Navien 240A manual, the Navien NPE-240S manual, Navien NPE-180A manual or similar. That means that the cold water is not actually cold; it will usually be slightly warm (at room temperature). Check this too: Electric RV Water Heater How to & Troubleshooting Guide. You can tell because the cold supply line is connected to the circulating return. We can go from there with up to 3 hours of dedicated live coaching on the telephone if needed. Can you turn it off in a tankless that has it built in? Well tackle the installation and running costs of a circulating pump in full near the end. Ask an Expert Home Improvement Questions HVAC Questions Navien NPE-240s with external recirculating pump. Its really an easy task to do. qc = the circulating water flow [m3/s] On a side note, if your Grundfos circulating pump is making sounds, it may have air locks or installation problems. When you turn on the shower or a faucet, do you get hot water instantly? You need a check valve on the cold inlet 3/4 pipe also from the looks of the picture, you do not have a true designated recirculation line from your furnace fixture. my understanding of the Navien with internal recirc pump is that they work with either an external dedicated return pipe or an internal bypass loop located within the water heater cabinet. Do you want to know the details? Why Does My RV Carbon Monoxide Detector Keep Going Off? Just locate the air bleeder valve on top of the recirculation system. Can I swap out the mainboard in the NR240A to an NPE240A board to get all that features? Connect a regular garden hose to the hot side service valve. For example, if you have a person showering and another individual shaving. Most of information is available in the install manual but some of it requires a phone call to Navien support. Change the thermistor if needed. When we dont have to use it, why keep it on? I am guessing that he only returned the HOT line, hence the delayed time in "INSTANT HOT", as the Naviens are sold as well as there 96% efficiency!! This depends on how long you leave it on and how often you use it. We get it, but (1) terrylove.com can't live without ads, and (2) ad blockers can cause issues with videos and comments. I am contemplating getting the NPE-180A and controlling the pump with a remote control in each bathroom. Dont hesitate to switch the tees around if you get them backward. NEC 310.16 Table: Copper And Aluminum Wire Ampacity Chart, NEC 310.12 Table: Wire Sizes For 100-400 Amp Services (83% Rule), kWh To Therms Calculator + Conversion Chart (1 kWh = 0.03412 Therms), MMBTU To Therms Calculator + Chart (1 MMBTU = 10 Therms), Therms To MMBTU Calculator + Chart (1 Therm = 1/10 MMBTU), AWG To Circular Mils Chart (For 4/0 AWG To 20 AWG). Second, you can use a flex connector to isolate the pump. Also, check the filters to see if they are clean. It may not display this or other websites correctly. What parts does a home water recirculation pump include, and where to install it. Similarly, if the return from the loops is mixing with the boiler loop system and cooling off the water before it gets sent to the recirculation pump, you will face this problem. You have to inspect the sensors connectors to confirm they are not wet and fixed correctly. I may be able to correct this if I solve the mystery on where the dedicated return line might be. I added an additional remote for a total of 3. This breaks down the scale and flushes out the sediment. By installing a hot water circulation pump, you will have a hot shower right away. The remote control module sits beside this area (I have it floating but I'll put double stick tape and mount it to the interior soon) and the antenna lead drops through a grommet (conveniently already available at the bottom of the unit near the pcb) to the outside. FREE Returns . Thats kind of why the water heater still has to do some work (it turns on); its not a lot of heating but some heating is usually required. Allow the vinegar to circulate through the heater for a minimum of one hour (longer if the pump runs at less than four gallons per minute). The main sign of motherboard or control board failure is intermittent switching off and on. A hot water recirculation pump can be sized for a given system using the following formulas: Water flow qc = /T x 4200 Hi Mike, we think about water as hot vs. cold. If your system is re-circed as close as possible to the fixtures (ask yourself do I have two hot waterlines for each fixture?) Hopefully its clear which is which when Im down there. You can adjust the temperature while the display is flashing. Close the cold and hot water inlet valves and then drain the water heater. Without the need for extra piping, this type of hot water circulation pump system also comes at a much lower cost. Lets start by looking at how these pumps actually work: If it takes forever for the hot water to start running, it usually means that there is a long pipe between a boiler (or a hot water heater or tankless water heater) and the faucet. We have one faucet in the kitchen that has instant scalding hot water the second you turn it on . Think hot water loops returning to your boiler to get reheated (to stay hot) Think LOOPS!! It tells you about the improper operation of the flow sensor. But it will be best if you contact a certified plumber to fix this issue. Controling Navien NPE internal recirculation pump It can take anywhere from 10 seconds to 1 minute for the hot water to reach the faucet. Otherwise, this will cause the shut-off valve to get damaged. It also increases the gas bill. Continue reading below Our Video of the Day 1. This requires the installation of an additional water pipe. I have an NR240A for about 10 years now. If you fail to stop the noise after trying all the steps I mentioned, I bet there is a complex problem with the unit. Years of experience in the HVAC field have taught him many lessons, not the least of which is that the value of quality and knowledge far exceeds any promised initial savings. You can set it to run in the morning before work, and in the evening. I think it's 100F. Air in the line: If there has been a power outage or air has gotten into the line for another reason, the pump can make a lot of noise. This time of year, we dont need to have instant hot water circulating so we turned off the pump. $44.90. Working well so far. Ensure the recirculation pump was installed correctly. If necessary, replace them all. Examine the thermistors condition and pump wiring connectors. When the water is sufficiently hot, the temperature sensor will shut off the power to the recirculation pump to conserve energy. With the NRCR you can set your own schedule with a remote accessory and tailor the integrated pump to your lifestyle or scheduled needs. Weve tried to include every concern you might have regarding turning off the water recirculating pump. At the same time, someone is in the kitchen doing the dishes. Yes, you can turn off your hot water recirculating pump. If this does not work, hire a professional to repair or replace any damaged parts. House generators are quite expensive. The operations manuals above cover all Navien NPE-A and NPE-S series condensing tankless water heaters. Turn off the device and examine the APSs condition. Our goal here at GridSub is to help you find viable solutions to different off-grid problems. It also may be as simple as a dip switch in the tankless unit itself. Grundfos water recirculation pump may troubleshoot, Grundfos circulating pump is making sounds, Easy DIY Media Cabinet Build with Basic Tools, From Cast-Iron to Stainless-Steel: How to Replace Your Kitchen Sink, While theres no water in the pump, do not turn on the recirculating pump. In large systems, however, it may be advantageous to use controlled pumps to enable adjustment of the flow when starting up the system and to be able to apply temperature control. You also have to flush the heat exchanger. Not really. Our articles, products and services are for informational purposes. Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience. If you have a Navien tankless water heater this can be done by simply pressing a . I have alos checked my HeatBox settings to ensure the temp is set high enough for my domestic supply (set to around 120 degrees). All you have to do is browse through our guides, answers and personal experience documentations to find out what you should (or shouldn't) do when going off the grid. This item: Navien 30010780B Circulation Pump. I am wondering if you have a Navilink and if you by any chance went in like I did and clicked the "disable/enable button" and turned off the schedules, I did change that - thinking it was a glitch that on first launch "enable" was showing. Quick summary on costs: Recirculating a pump is certainly useful if you want hot water quickly. This gives users hot water when they need it, saving water and money. Manage Settings Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, and our products. (State-By-State Chart), How To Convert Therms To kWh? What about adding the NaviLink WiFi board and controlling it from your phone anywhere? Press the Power button on the front panel to turn on the water heater. While you may have a general understanding of the listed electrical issue above, you should not attempt to handle any electrical work unless you are a licensed electrician. Eric Alvarez is an HVAC guy based in El Paso, Texas, United States. Hot Water Recirculating Pump: What You Should Know - Best San Diego Correcting Navien Tankless Hot Water Heater Installation Hi Patrick, thats a good insight. Thanks. Its not exactly normal. Refer to the user manual to locate the Hot Button and then press it to activate hot water recirculation. It is propelled only by water pressure. Therefore, when it malfunctions, it is a sign that the heater has another major underlying issue. To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. This is because the sensors are corroded over time which causes them to shut the heater down. Lets hop in! Here we will cover all the important parts of hot water recirculations pumps, including: You will get an overall look at how you can use increased water pressure by a circulation pump for almost instantaneous hot water access.